Anything to get attention huh? How about actually learning to write real music....your a bunch of frauds....you can push that 'creative satisfaction' nonsense all you want....you willingly pushed and sold a product that was a lie/fraud..it's called false/fake advertisement..you would be more respected if you tried to sell those fake t-shirts that all of the bots on SM are promoting...and to say its non-profit? Sure, and I donate/give all of my salary to the homeless....like Eddie Wyrd said., your whole explanation was most likely AI...I think its fine if you make AI music and sell it as long as people know up front that it is indeed fake....it's one thing to create art that one is inspired/influenced by....how can you be inspired/influenced by AI? The 'A' stands for artifical....meaning its FAKE...so a fake band is inspired by fake infleunces? got it....and define a "clone band" while your at it....much more honorable to be a band that is heavily influenced by another than to create anything that is artificial....it's easy to see what you're doing with the "any press is good press" philosophy....but you're all going to find out that in this genre/sub genre of underground rock/metal, you're going to be dispelled very easily amongst the journalists and musicians...and BTW, to be honest I don't know how anyone even likes this music...it's boring/dull, drums are flat as can be etc...and you shouldn't take offense to that because you didn't create it ;)
I think the concept and the way we expressed the nature of the project is pretty clear.
This post has been up for a while and the signals regarding the occult nature of the band were there from the start, they gradually became more clearer.
The fact it triggers you is a more interesting point to look into for yourself.
Personally there is not much honour in physically copying existing bands or music, especially when it has become over saturated,. it shows lack in originality and creativity, and it has shown that musicians need to step up their game and be less lazy.
Also, again as mentioned in our post, we already knew what the outcome would be of this project, but its interesting how it does provide a pretty strong reaction from people…both sides of the spectrum.
As the project does not focus on any individual being in the limelight, as identities are unknown its not really something you want to do to get attention for.
This project is an experiment. It shows at what level we have arrived with technology. In a few years one will not hear the difference between AI or physical music. There will be a shift that people wont care as long as it sounds good to them. Good physical music will remain the most popular, but the musicians will need to step up their game.
Its fine if you don’t like this music, no one is forcing you to listen to it. We don’t take offence at all, we're interested in discussing peoples reaction be it good or bad. Thanks for taking the time to respond.
We could have a discussion on being original but in reality, pretty much everything that could be done has been done in rock and metal....gone are the days when labels actually signed artists and developed them...artist development is what allowed unique music to be made...in the modern day music industry, bands are no longer 'full-time' bands...most have full-time jobs and in order to really develop as a musician/artist, working a 40 hour week isn't going to allow that creativity to be developed properly....you claim there is no honor in copying existing bands music and that bands need to step up their game...and yet here you are doing the exact opposite...so this is what you call "stepping up your game" huh? Creating fake music is stepping up your game?
Damn right it "triggers" me as it does when anyone tries to sell a fraudulent product.
Again, I love how you completely disregarded my comment on false advertising and selling a fake product....let's hear you defend that because that is the crux of my post/reply. Why not just come out and say its AI and then let people decide if they want to purchase it or not once given the truth/facts? That is where you all messed up. And while your at it, try stepping up YOUR game instead of telling musicians and bands to do so. If you never sold a product and simply streamed this, that would have been an interesting experiement because it wouldn't have involved people spending their hard earned money on some fake product. The fact that you are totally fine with that shows the true nature of your intentions. How about stop being a bunch of cowards and let people know your real identity? Of course you won't because your gutless frauds
The fact AI, or the proper use of AI can produce music that is more interesting than a lot of bands in a genre is telling. If it has anything to do with the shift of the music industry, artist development or part or full time work... who knows, there is a new tool that can make something that sounds good and people enjoy listening to There is no fraudulent project, there is no point. You've read the substack and the goal and set up of the experiment. If it would be the purpose to get rich then I think a more commercial genre would have been a wiser choice... And then whats the guarantee it would be succesfull ?
Regarding a fake product, how is it fake ? You hear the music and you can purchase it or not. It has a branding and it is soaked in the occult, the occult (hidden) of the project is the AI, you can agree to differ, but we explained the experiment in the original post. Maybe you would have preferred a label AI, but does that mean every band should label if they are using software, programmed drums, plug-ins, etc... The difference is this cutting edge technology and there are no boundaries yet of what is accepted in the mainstream. You will look back at this post in a few years and realise how AI music will be mostly integrated into society, same as video implementations.
Then there is the question of ethics, we deal with this topic in our original post, regarding people purchasing...they purchase because they like the music... then the question is does the initial joy change when you realise it is AI ? Thats part of the bigger question and the reactions will vary. There is no reason to show our identity, as explained in our original post, that was not a goal...the fact that you might find it a cowardly move is your right to think so, the purpose of the project has been explained in the original post and its pretty self explanatory. A question for yourself is how many things in you daily life do you look into if they are actually what you think they are ? Do you question all the foods you eat ? The news you consume ?
Nice hypophoric replies by asnswering questions with questions. Since when is occult doom mainstream? So why does it matter whats accepted in the mainstream when we're talking about non-mainstream music? We're all pretty aware that most of the mainsream music these days is most likely AI which is why it's the antithesis of what we all like and you damn well know that or else you wouldnt have made that statement. Your dancing around the issue of not being transparent while selling an artistically fake product....comparing AI to programmed music/instruments is comparing apples to oranges and isn't even remotely the same and you know it. Of course the intitial joy will change when people realize the music isn't real, you dont need to be selling fake music for that to be known . Your narcisissm and self-importance as fake musical artists is quite glaring. Of course it wasnt a goal to expose your identities so you can continue to create and sell fake music. If you were real artists and had any integrity whatsoever, you would offer monetary returns to anyone who felt they got duped by your so-called "experiment"....now that would be a REAL experiment where your not essentially stealing peoples money
The whole point of the experiment is that is should raise more questions, thats the whole reason for setting it up. The point of making the experiment in a non-mainstream genre was to see how it could work in a specific niche, and not for commercial purposes. I guess we've proved the point there. Not most of mainstream music is AI, it is still produced by a handful of producers, the business model and people making money is too big to have it be allowed to shift to AI, but it will gradually.
No, there is no dancing around anything. Technology makes creative procedures evolve. As DJs shifted from vinyl to CDs to digital. As has the technology in composing music from expensive studios to bedroom studios shifted. You dont even have to play an instrument to make music in your DAW with plug-ins. AI is a new frontier.
So, why does the joy change when you know it isnt real ? Thats the interesting point to think about, we describe this with the Cypher Matrix character.
Regarding creating and selling 'fake' music. It is actually a lot of fun dabbling into the software, and actually quite challenging. We'd challenge you to try and create an AI song sounding exactly like Hail Darkness, pretty sure it will be quite difficult to achieve. It does require some skill. Regarding being duped, thats up to the individual to decide and we discuss this ethical question in the original post. By solely choosing for streaming would have not put the experiment to its full purpose. The music is available on all platforms, streaming, youtube and bandcamp...so you can listen to it for free and you have an option to purchase. You can read in our original post what our short/mid and long term goals where, so only the short term would be to remain 'occult', so there was no goal to continue to sell what you call fake music as we were aware that it would take a few months for people to see through the smoke and mirrors.... so knowing this in advance and the backlash we would get we decided to carry it out. Your opinion is noted and to an extent can be understood. Regarding the finances we cover this in the original post.
There's no reason to trust a word of this Substack post, nor even to assume it was written, unaided, by a human being.
The "clone" bands are pursuing something worthwhile, even when they mostly fail at it. This, on the other hand, is a parasitic misuse of human creativity and it's telling that the author continues to conceal their identity.
In this day and age its hard to know whats real or not. Maybe your comment is a bot or also Chat GPT...who knows. That was part of the experiment.
I'd be interested to know what is worthwhile in pursuing a musical career as a clone band? What is the creative satisfaction of being a clone band ?
I would also advise to play around with these AI tools and understand the possibilities they offer. They are a lot of fun, and can teach you a lot about certain creative processes, but also philosophically and ethically.
Its quite harsh and sour to jump inot words as 'parasitic misuse', just about every artist has copied, or has been 'inspired' or 'influenced' by other things.
Maybe someday we will conceal our identity, but for the moment it wasn't our initial purpose. Would it matter if you knew ?
Well done. Seriously. Just an absolutely fascinating experiment. Mad props to y'all for pulling it off and the detailed report on your thinking, the ethics, the reflection on the genre as a whole, and - maybe ironically? - all of the human work that you still put into doing this. I would say I hope this encourages people to listen with a more discerning and critical ear and, more importantly, apply that to all aspects of life, but my outlook on that isn't optimistic on that front.
I have a question... Do you like the music you helped to create?
I do... It's flawed, problematic, controversial; also brilliant, graceful, and poetic at times. Much like humanity? And it does have a human touch. After hearing so many people try to validate and justify the increasingly art-ificial A.I.-ification of music and art (if you will... things like autotune, quantization, tired songwriting formulas, interpolation and remakes, generic plugins replacing analog experimentation, production-by-numbers, etc), it was actually nice to see/hear somebody lean into it creatively, and yet simultaneously create something more-or-less unique.
A little bit of a foot-in-mouth moment for the present state of our culture? The ultimate generic genre piece somehow sounding less generic than the present state of "popular" affairs... I can hear the hallmarks, presence, and hauntings of so many different past artists, but something new all the same. As if it's so easy? It's not, but it does speak to the magic that is humanity, the human spirit echoing through our own technology.
Will you ever release the artists used to train the A.I.? I can hear the Black Sabbath of course, and seemingly other gems of the psych era... which, if I may point out, coincided with a certain Lucy, some say the darkness, some say the light bearer; and the jumpstart of the tech-no-logic era in the first place, which was all intermingled and interwoven into our language and logos at the time. The bite taken off the Apple, and did it fall far from the tree, for example? The eve, the atom.
Curious how things come back around, as some of those melodies were self-reflections of the future we were heading in in the first place, its hubris and its potential alike. That which we glorify can also be our curse, and that which we curse can also be our glory. There is always that irony in the occult; the darkness, that it contains all things, including shadows cast by the light...it can be used to hurt, and used to heal. The word is spell craft after all, and we are witches pointing the finger at witches, in this schismed mess of consensus reality.
Really I just hope this project will challenge artists to put the soul back into our work (our souls, that is), our word, and our world, and not rely upon "the algorithm" to shape culture. whose algorithms, after all?
////This comment was written by A.I. aka a human mind.
There's many ways to look at this project and you've surely hit one of them. Firstly we really came to love the music that we helped curate. Mostly for the reasons you touch upon. It was uncanny how touching and powerful parts of songs could be, that at some points we wondered if there was some kind of soul in the machine. At the end of the day music is frequency and vibrations and the patterns of these vibrations is what touches our soul, so then the question becomes is it relevant how these are manifested ?
We have humans creating industrial soundscapes and computers creating delicate singer songwriter pieces.
The philosophical aspect can go as deep as you want. How unique is the human spirit ? Have we failed as creatives..or not ? Is or will AI become sentient ? What is the human spark and how do we keep it lit ?
Many things we've taken for granted and left answering with the rise of this extremely powerful technology. Pandora is out of the box, and even we dont know at the moment if we are discussing to real people or if its an AI conversation. What is real ?
Anything to get attention huh? How about actually learning to write real music....your a bunch of frauds....you can push that 'creative satisfaction' nonsense all you want....you willingly pushed and sold a product that was a lie/fraud..it's called false/fake advertisement..you would be more respected if you tried to sell those fake t-shirts that all of the bots on SM are promoting...and to say its non-profit? Sure, and I donate/give all of my salary to the homeless....like Eddie Wyrd said., your whole explanation was most likely AI...I think its fine if you make AI music and sell it as long as people know up front that it is indeed fake....it's one thing to create art that one is inspired/influenced by....how can you be inspired/influenced by AI? The 'A' stands for artifical....meaning its FAKE...so a fake band is inspired by fake infleunces? got it....and define a "clone band" while your at it....much more honorable to be a band that is heavily influenced by another than to create anything that is artificial....it's easy to see what you're doing with the "any press is good press" philosophy....but you're all going to find out that in this genre/sub genre of underground rock/metal, you're going to be dispelled very easily amongst the journalists and musicians...and BTW, to be honest I don't know how anyone even likes this music...it's boring/dull, drums are flat as can be etc...and you shouldn't take offense to that because you didn't create it ;)
Thanks for the feedback.
I think the concept and the way we expressed the nature of the project is pretty clear.
This post has been up for a while and the signals regarding the occult nature of the band were there from the start, they gradually became more clearer.
The fact it triggers you is a more interesting point to look into for yourself.
Personally there is not much honour in physically copying existing bands or music, especially when it has become over saturated,. it shows lack in originality and creativity, and it has shown that musicians need to step up their game and be less lazy.
Also, again as mentioned in our post, we already knew what the outcome would be of this project, but its interesting how it does provide a pretty strong reaction from people…both sides of the spectrum.
As the project does not focus on any individual being in the limelight, as identities are unknown its not really something you want to do to get attention for.
This project is an experiment. It shows at what level we have arrived with technology. In a few years one will not hear the difference between AI or physical music. There will be a shift that people wont care as long as it sounds good to them. Good physical music will remain the most popular, but the musicians will need to step up their game.
Its fine if you don’t like this music, no one is forcing you to listen to it. We don’t take offence at all, we're interested in discussing peoples reaction be it good or bad. Thanks for taking the time to respond.
We could have a discussion on being original but in reality, pretty much everything that could be done has been done in rock and metal....gone are the days when labels actually signed artists and developed them...artist development is what allowed unique music to be made...in the modern day music industry, bands are no longer 'full-time' bands...most have full-time jobs and in order to really develop as a musician/artist, working a 40 hour week isn't going to allow that creativity to be developed properly....you claim there is no honor in copying existing bands music and that bands need to step up their game...and yet here you are doing the exact opposite...so this is what you call "stepping up your game" huh? Creating fake music is stepping up your game?
Damn right it "triggers" me as it does when anyone tries to sell a fraudulent product.
Again, I love how you completely disregarded my comment on false advertising and selling a fake product....let's hear you defend that because that is the crux of my post/reply. Why not just come out and say its AI and then let people decide if they want to purchase it or not once given the truth/facts? That is where you all messed up. And while your at it, try stepping up YOUR game instead of telling musicians and bands to do so. If you never sold a product and simply streamed this, that would have been an interesting experiement because it wouldn't have involved people spending their hard earned money on some fake product. The fact that you are totally fine with that shows the true nature of your intentions. How about stop being a bunch of cowards and let people know your real identity? Of course you won't because your gutless frauds
The fact AI, or the proper use of AI can produce music that is more interesting than a lot of bands in a genre is telling. If it has anything to do with the shift of the music industry, artist development or part or full time work... who knows, there is a new tool that can make something that sounds good and people enjoy listening to There is no fraudulent project, there is no point. You've read the substack and the goal and set up of the experiment. If it would be the purpose to get rich then I think a more commercial genre would have been a wiser choice... And then whats the guarantee it would be succesfull ?
Regarding a fake product, how is it fake ? You hear the music and you can purchase it or not. It has a branding and it is soaked in the occult, the occult (hidden) of the project is the AI, you can agree to differ, but we explained the experiment in the original post. Maybe you would have preferred a label AI, but does that mean every band should label if they are using software, programmed drums, plug-ins, etc... The difference is this cutting edge technology and there are no boundaries yet of what is accepted in the mainstream. You will look back at this post in a few years and realise how AI music will be mostly integrated into society, same as video implementations.
Then there is the question of ethics, we deal with this topic in our original post, regarding people purchasing...they purchase because they like the music... then the question is does the initial joy change when you realise it is AI ? Thats part of the bigger question and the reactions will vary. There is no reason to show our identity, as explained in our original post, that was not a goal...the fact that you might find it a cowardly move is your right to think so, the purpose of the project has been explained in the original post and its pretty self explanatory. A question for yourself is how many things in you daily life do you look into if they are actually what you think they are ? Do you question all the foods you eat ? The news you consume ?
Nice hypophoric replies by asnswering questions with questions. Since when is occult doom mainstream? So why does it matter whats accepted in the mainstream when we're talking about non-mainstream music? We're all pretty aware that most of the mainsream music these days is most likely AI which is why it's the antithesis of what we all like and you damn well know that or else you wouldnt have made that statement. Your dancing around the issue of not being transparent while selling an artistically fake product....comparing AI to programmed music/instruments is comparing apples to oranges and isn't even remotely the same and you know it. Of course the intitial joy will change when people realize the music isn't real, you dont need to be selling fake music for that to be known . Your narcisissm and self-importance as fake musical artists is quite glaring. Of course it wasnt a goal to expose your identities so you can continue to create and sell fake music. If you were real artists and had any integrity whatsoever, you would offer monetary returns to anyone who felt they got duped by your so-called "experiment"....now that would be a REAL experiment where your not essentially stealing peoples money
The whole point of the experiment is that is should raise more questions, thats the whole reason for setting it up. The point of making the experiment in a non-mainstream genre was to see how it could work in a specific niche, and not for commercial purposes. I guess we've proved the point there. Not most of mainstream music is AI, it is still produced by a handful of producers, the business model and people making money is too big to have it be allowed to shift to AI, but it will gradually.
No, there is no dancing around anything. Technology makes creative procedures evolve. As DJs shifted from vinyl to CDs to digital. As has the technology in composing music from expensive studios to bedroom studios shifted. You dont even have to play an instrument to make music in your DAW with plug-ins. AI is a new frontier.
So, why does the joy change when you know it isnt real ? Thats the interesting point to think about, we describe this with the Cypher Matrix character.
Regarding creating and selling 'fake' music. It is actually a lot of fun dabbling into the software, and actually quite challenging. We'd challenge you to try and create an AI song sounding exactly like Hail Darkness, pretty sure it will be quite difficult to achieve. It does require some skill. Regarding being duped, thats up to the individual to decide and we discuss this ethical question in the original post. By solely choosing for streaming would have not put the experiment to its full purpose. The music is available on all platforms, streaming, youtube and bandcamp...so you can listen to it for free and you have an option to purchase. You can read in our original post what our short/mid and long term goals where, so only the short term would be to remain 'occult', so there was no goal to continue to sell what you call fake music as we were aware that it would take a few months for people to see through the smoke and mirrors.... so knowing this in advance and the backlash we would get we decided to carry it out. Your opinion is noted and to an extent can be understood. Regarding the finances we cover this in the original post.
What's the good cause? The Human Fund?
There's no reason to trust a word of this Substack post, nor even to assume it was written, unaided, by a human being.
The "clone" bands are pursuing something worthwhile, even when they mostly fail at it. This, on the other hand, is a parasitic misuse of human creativity and it's telling that the author continues to conceal their identity.
In this day and age its hard to know whats real or not. Maybe your comment is a bot or also Chat GPT...who knows. That was part of the experiment.
I'd be interested to know what is worthwhile in pursuing a musical career as a clone band? What is the creative satisfaction of being a clone band ?
I would also advise to play around with these AI tools and understand the possibilities they offer. They are a lot of fun, and can teach you a lot about certain creative processes, but also philosophically and ethically.
Its quite harsh and sour to jump inot words as 'parasitic misuse', just about every artist has copied, or has been 'inspired' or 'influenced' by other things.
Maybe someday we will conceal our identity, but for the moment it wasn't our initial purpose. Would it matter if you knew ?
Thanks for taking the time to read and respond!
Well done. Seriously. Just an absolutely fascinating experiment. Mad props to y'all for pulling it off and the detailed report on your thinking, the ethics, the reflection on the genre as a whole, and - maybe ironically? - all of the human work that you still put into doing this. I would say I hope this encourages people to listen with a more discerning and critical ear and, more importantly, apply that to all aspects of life, but my outlook on that isn't optimistic on that front.
I have a question... Do you like the music you helped to create?
I do... It's flawed, problematic, controversial; also brilliant, graceful, and poetic at times. Much like humanity? And it does have a human touch. After hearing so many people try to validate and justify the increasingly art-ificial A.I.-ification of music and art (if you will... things like autotune, quantization, tired songwriting formulas, interpolation and remakes, generic plugins replacing analog experimentation, production-by-numbers, etc), it was actually nice to see/hear somebody lean into it creatively, and yet simultaneously create something more-or-less unique.
A little bit of a foot-in-mouth moment for the present state of our culture? The ultimate generic genre piece somehow sounding less generic than the present state of "popular" affairs... I can hear the hallmarks, presence, and hauntings of so many different past artists, but something new all the same. As if it's so easy? It's not, but it does speak to the magic that is humanity, the human spirit echoing through our own technology.
Will you ever release the artists used to train the A.I.? I can hear the Black Sabbath of course, and seemingly other gems of the psych era... which, if I may point out, coincided with a certain Lucy, some say the darkness, some say the light bearer; and the jumpstart of the tech-no-logic era in the first place, which was all intermingled and interwoven into our language and logos at the time. The bite taken off the Apple, and did it fall far from the tree, for example? The eve, the atom.
Curious how things come back around, as some of those melodies were self-reflections of the future we were heading in in the first place, its hubris and its potential alike. That which we glorify can also be our curse, and that which we curse can also be our glory. There is always that irony in the occult; the darkness, that it contains all things, including shadows cast by the light...it can be used to hurt, and used to heal. The word is spell craft after all, and we are witches pointing the finger at witches, in this schismed mess of consensus reality.
Really I just hope this project will challenge artists to put the soul back into our work (our souls, that is), our word, and our world, and not rely upon "the algorithm" to shape culture. whose algorithms, after all?
////This comment was written by A.I. aka a human mind.
There's many ways to look at this project and you've surely hit one of them. Firstly we really came to love the music that we helped curate. Mostly for the reasons you touch upon. It was uncanny how touching and powerful parts of songs could be, that at some points we wondered if there was some kind of soul in the machine. At the end of the day music is frequency and vibrations and the patterns of these vibrations is what touches our soul, so then the question becomes is it relevant how these are manifested ?
We have humans creating industrial soundscapes and computers creating delicate singer songwriter pieces.
The philosophical aspect can go as deep as you want. How unique is the human spirit ? Have we failed as creatives..or not ? Is or will AI become sentient ? What is the human spark and how do we keep it lit ?
Many things we've taken for granted and left answering with the rise of this extremely powerful technology. Pandora is out of the box, and even we dont know at the moment if we are discussing to real people or if its an AI conversation. What is real ?